Katerina Gimon: “Composers, be bold! Send your music into the world!”
I’m very grateful to have the opportunity to chat with composer, improviser and vocalist Katerina Gimon about her unique journey as a composer. We talked about early career moves, self-promotion, and publishing vs. self-publishing, and she shared tons of useful insights for performers and composers alike.
K: I'm Katerina Gimon, a freelance composer based in Metro Vancouver, British Columbia. I specialise in writing music for choirs and voices, but really - I write all sorts of things! I’ve written two operas now, several works for orchestra, music with electronics - I sort of dibble-dabble in a bunch of different things! I even wrote one musical!
Taran: Woah!!
K: Yeah! That was interesting. I would love to do more, but it's hard to find those gigs.
Looking back - I always wrote music, but I didn't know what it was at first. When I was really young I just thought it was me being a bad student in my piano lessons by finding other things to do other than practising. My teacher used to tell my mum “Katerina isn't learning her pieces, she's just making up her own instead!” It’s pretty funny looking back. But clearly, I already had a creative spirit!
A few years later when I started studying voice, my voice teacher Linda Fletcher (who also happens to be a fantastic composer) recognized this spark in me and encouraged me to pursue my writing. At that time, what I was creating was more in the realm of “singer-songwriter” style - performing and accompanying myself on the piano, guitar, ukulele - but it was a start. Alongside that, I joined a fantastic local choir called the Hamilton Children’s Choir, where I experienced the magic of communal music-making for the first time, and I absolutely fell in love with it. It was a pivotal moment for me.
So later when I went on to university, I knew I wanted to go into music - but I had no idea where the place was for me in this world. I ended up going to Wilfrid Laurier, just an hour down the road from where I grew up, because they had a program where you could do a “Business Management Option” add-on to your degree, which I thought might lead me to working in arts admin.
T: Oh, I would love to have done something like that.
K: So my degree was technically general music with this management option. And I had room for one elective in my first year, and on a whim I took composition! At the very end of that class, I wrote a piece called Boundless as my final project, the first choral piece I ever wrote. And it was the first time I realised that all the things I loved about songwriting and choir - the creative aspects, the communal element, the exploration, and vulnerability - I could combine in writing music for choirs. I knew it was the place for me - and I was hooked. So, I switched into the composition program for my second year, and the rest is history! I just kept writing - I couldn't stop.
T: Wow, it really spoke to you. Do you still write songs as well, or is it fully into the “classical” choral realm?
K: Far less “songs” these days. But I did recently just write one for my wedding, which happened a couple of months ago!
T: Congratulations.
K: I wrote it for my husband as my vows. I did debate, “hmm, should I do that? That's really cheesy.” But, I did. I don't get to write songs as much these days. You know, when something creative becomes your career, it's just different.
T: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
K: I still write silly songs for myself, but not as seriously as I used to. Now that this is what I do for a living I really have to work to protect my creative bandwidth so I don’t burn out. You only have so much in a day.
T: Right.
K: So I just compose for the most part now music that is technically under the umbrella of classical music - but definitely more of a blend of popular and contemporary classical genres. When I introduce my music to people, I like to play some examples for them to give them a better sense. Cause I feel like when I tell somebody “I'm a composer. I write choral music,” they sort of suspect a certain style…. which is not at all what I do!
Song for the Searching
T: What moves would you suggest for a composition student who's recently graduated from their bachelor's degree, as you did from Wilfrid Laurier years ago?
K: One thing I found helpful was to look at the careers of different composers that I admired. I followed them on social media, tried to see what kinds of things they were doing, and would even occasionally reach out with questions. I saw the varied mix of different things these folks were doing - composing, some teaching, freelancing, working non-music jobs, applying for grants, residencies, etc. - and I would try these things myself. Inevitably some worked for me. Some didn’t. But I kept on and moved around the jigsaw puzzle of my life until I found a mix that worked best for me. I suspect this process will continue throughout my life - as I grow and change.
When I graduated with my Masters, I took on a part-time job working arts admin for a local youth orchestra. I knew “this is enough to pay the rent. So I'm going to give myself a little bit of time and see what I can make of my career.” And so, I worked two and a half days a week for them, and spent the rest of my week applying for grants, calls for scores, every competition, anything that I was eligible for. I put out feelers, went to concerts and introduced myself to musicians and directors - I did everything I could to sow the seeds for what could happen next.
After two years, things were on the up and I got a big break. A piece of mine called Fire took off after being performed at a big choral conference (the American Choral Directors Association national conference) in Kansas City in 2019. Then really quickly, I got a good uptick of commissions and was able to make the leap to full-time.
T: Wow! That’s great. It's good that you mentioned calls for scores - do you have any advice for young composers who are, like, frantically applying to these composition competitions? That was part of the terrifying ordeal of being a composer, in my experience.
K: Well, I'm in the camp that I would never write something specifically for a competition. There are certain calls for scores or competitions that are like, “set this very specific non-public-domain poem, for choir, tuba, and saxophone” - something really weird that’s clearly never going to get performed again. And I wouldn't suggest that. Write the things you want to write, and if you see a competition or a call that it's eligible for, even vaguely, send it in! Apply to everything you can.
Those two years I mentioned when I was building up my career, I applied to literally everything under the sun that I could. I’d read an article, “Why You Should Aim For 100 Rejections A Year.” The author spoke about her experience of changing her mindset to “collect rejections” instead of focusing on winning. She suggested setting “rejection goals”. Because if you’re shooting for so many rejections, you're bound to get some acceptances too! Or, as I later learned, some other unexpected positive leads or connections can come too. So being the nerd I am, I started an Excel spreadsheet, set a rejection goal, and went for it!
T: A spreadsheet! With every single thing you've applied for, and then the outcome?
K: Yeah, exactly! Also just to say “I applied to this many things this year, I want to see if I can apply to more next year.” Because I know that if I don't apply to anything, I won’t get anything. But if I throw my hat in the ring, now there’s at least the chance of a “yes”.
T: (quoting Wayne Gretzky) “You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.”
K: Exactly! I think that's a mindset one needs to get used to as a composer because there are so many grants, commissions, opportunities, and other things that you just won’t get. The vast majority, in fact. It’s just inevitable! But just know that “no” is the worst you’re ever gonna get - which is where you started anyway, so why not give it a try? I’ve also learned that there are so many other positive outcomes from these things that you might not have even thought about.
For example, I’ve talked to people years after this time - people who reached out and commissioned me or who were programming my music, and when I asked, “how did you find out about me?” So many said: “I was on a jury of this competition and I saw your music, and I flagged it and put it in my list to program.”
T: No way!
K: Yea! I even had a group that I submitted a piece to their call for scores. And I got the rejection email in my inbox. Then two minutes later, I got an order through my website from them purchasing the score I submitted for another concert of theirs. Things like that happen all the time. It’s a great way to get on people’s radar.
Oh, and remember how I was talking about how my career was taking off because of my piece Fire being performed at the American Choral Directors Association national conference in Kansas City in 2019?
T: Yeah.
K: Well, the choir who performed it there - the Vancouver Youth Choir - their director discovered the piece because I submitted it to a composition competition that I didn’t win. But their choral director, Carrie Tennant, was on the jury and really loved the piece.
T: Wow.
K: Literally, that competition that I didn't win led to her finding it, which led to that moment, which in a way - sparked my career! I think that's a prime example of - you never know where things are going to lead. It's about changing the outlook and just planting seeds of opportunity and seeing what grows.
T: Getting that score or that idea in front of the right person at the right time, in the right place.
K: Exactly. Because you never know who's behind the screen. You don't think about it when you're applying to things. You're just like, “I hope I win.” But there's a room full of people behind there. If even one person in one competition connects deeply, that can really change things, you just gotta find your people.
In Her Image
T: The next question is about self-promotion. Have there been any challenges you had to overcome while setting up your brand, your website, and your presence?
K: Well, I think reframing your mindset on self-promotion is really important! Cause I know it can feel weird when in a way you're the product and promoting what you do. But it can help to try and think about promotion more in the sense of you sharing what you love and are proud of with friends and colleagues - people who connect with the same things that you’re doing, people who are interested and want to hear from you. When I’m trying to figure out what to say on social or in promotional material, I’ll often even think: what would I say if I was speaking to or sharing this with my best friend, you know?
Thinking of it in that sense has helped me stay more authentic to my own voice, which feels more natural when promoting myself - whether in-person or digitally. Then it doesn't feel like promoting at all! It's not like, “hey, please buy my thing here,” it's more like “I just wrote this thing that I'm really excited about and proud of, here’s my favourite moment from it and I would like to share it with you!” Or even just thinking of it as making friends who are also obsessed with the same nerdy music things as you (and maybe might be collaborators one day).
T: Mhmm.
K: The other thing (this is more nitty-gritty): you can work to figure out, is where to find your audience. This is an interesting thing to discover and for me has been mostly via trial and error.
I've really started thinking about it a lot more in the last couple of years as I've developed my career. Who are the people interested in the same kinds of things as me and what are the best ways to reach them? Whether it's a newsletter, one-on-one emails, social media, a combination thereof, and even in-person events like conferences! I saw you did a conference recently as well, so you know what I mean, I’m sure.
T: Right.
K: For me I’ve found certain conferences are immensely helpful, even if I don't come back with something concrete, like a commission in the bag. It's just being there - whether it's physically at a conference, or in the virtual world with my promotions and newsletter or emails or whatever it is, reminding people that I am here! I exist! And I'm writing things and doing cool stuff and collaborating with people. So then when it comes time for someone to commission, they might look up at their phone, see a post I just made of my cat sitting on my sketches and think, “Oh yes, Kat exists! And we could commission her.”
So many commissions I get are literally because of that. Like, I'll post about something unrelated and then people will be like, “That piece is really cool. On another note: we're trying to do an anniversary commission right now. Do you have any room in your schedule?”
T: That's great to hear from you, because a lot of people struggle with consistency, and figuring out what to post. I'll admit, I'm not the best at it.
K: I feel like your social media looks so much nicer than mine. I'm just like “here's a random photo every three weeks.”
T: Well, it is about consistency and reminding people that you exist. It's hard to actually measure the outcomes from your social media because I think a huge amount of people are lurkers now.
K: That’s what I mean! I’m totally a lurker, and I'm pretty sure most people are. But it's just like, “wow that person doing something really cool. *click* I'm going to put that away in my mind because… maybe we could collaborate later! Or even something like, “Hey Taran does engraving!” - I'm going to file that away in my brain and come back to that later when I need help.
T: Yeah, planting the seed! I literally talked to a client about this the other day. I feel very validated.
What's The Game?
T: So the last question was actually your suggestion, the question of publishing versus self-publishing. How does a composer make the decision between publishing with, say, Cypress - they publish you, right? -
K: Yes, I have a number of publishers now…five or six?
T: You have a whole bunch! Or is self-publishing the way to go?
K: I think it really depends on the person and the piece! This is part of the reason I brought it up. There are a number of composers I know, for example, in the choral music world who go the traditional publishing route only. Maybe they don’t want to do their own promotion, or they don’t have the time, but they love writing and they just care about their music getting out there. So then they go through a publisher or publishers!
The obvious upside to working with a publisher is chances are they’re going to have much more reach and capacity to promote your music than you. They know the market and can get your music into the hands of the right people. All my published stuff sells better, I suspect for this reason. A publisher’s reputability can also be very helpful for a composer starting out, making it more likely folks who don’t know you will give your music a shot.
Now the obvious downside with publishing is that with traditional publishers you sign away the copyright to your work and receive way less royalties (10% is most common for sheet music sales from my experience), which makes it difficult to earn a living as a composer.
T: Right.
K: And when you don’t own the copyright it can also make things tricky or at least very weird in terms of licensing - because you aren’t the one giving a ‘yes’ to who can licence your music for things like films, sample it, adapt it in different formats, and so on. I haven't had any horrible experiences thankfully so far, but it does feel weird to me when people are like, “I would love to use your music for this awesome and worthwhile project” and I want to say ‘yes’ and maybe even grant it to them for free, but then I have to say “go talk to my publisher because I don’t own the copyright”.
It’s a weird scenario to be in as the person who wrote the music. So you really have to find a balance with each work and think about: How important is it that I get this piece out there? How important is it that I retain copyright and creative control? And what I’ve found for me is, it's a piece by piece decision. And I’ve picked some sacrificial lambs to get my music out there.
I’ve also put things with different publishers to help expand my reach. I think it's been effective cause I've noticed a steady uptick in my commission calendar, and more people are seeming to recognize my name, at least in the choral music world. So, doing this has seemed to help! But I am making an effort to move more and more towards self-publishing now that I’m getting established. This is consistent with advice I've heard from other composers in the field as well: once you can achieve that reach, send everyone over to your self-published stuff!
T: Interesting!
K: For example, a recent major work of mine called, Unsung, I really debated a lot about it - because I of course want it to reach as many groups as it can. But I decided in the end that that particular piece is one I’d prefer to retain copyright and creative control over. And, that I think will sell well enough with just me behind it.
K: So you really need to take into account what makes most sense for you. If you’re a person that's very business savvy and would like to do it all, go for it. Self-publish everything! But be prepared to invest time and money to get things out there. No time and don’t care about the small royalty cut? Publish it all! And if you're someone like me, who might like a little bit of “best of both worlds.” Pick some pieces to publish to build your audience, and then work towards steering folks to your self-published catalogue so it’s easier to make a living.
T: That's super interesting to hear your perspective on that. I've edited lots of choral pieces, but I'm not all that plugged into the choral world. My main niche is orchestral music - strings and woodwinds and especially brass. Publishing is way less of a thing, and a lot of young composers don't even know where to even begin.
K: That's true, yeah. I should say this is all primarily from my experience with choral music. With my orchestral music, art songs, and chamber music - I don't know if I'll ever publish it - it’s just a different world. There’s just nowhere near the volume of people purchasing this music, and honestly most people looking to perform this music of mine are usually doing so because they already know me anyway.
T: Yeah, exactly.
K: For choral music and band music, these are two very specific worlds in contemporary composition where there's a lot of interest in new music, so there is a big market. So publishers have lots of interest in that. There’s a lot of commissioning happening. And it’s a great opportunity for self-published composers to make a living too by selling their music. But whatever route a composer decides - it all starts with getting your music out and into the world!
T: I think that's really what it boils down to. Overcoming our musician tendency to be introverted and humble and trying to not get in people's way, and realise that actually, there are people out there looking for music like yours. It's a hard truth to accept.
K: Yes! You’ve just got to find your people.
T: Totally. I’m currently searching for a woodwind quintet by a New Zealand composer, and I thought as soon as I put out feelers and asked around I’d get like 800 wind quintets coming my way. I’ve gotten nothing! Everybody's just like “well… you said you wanted something festive for your December show, and I don't know, my piece is a little bit out there.” No, I want to hear it!
K: Nah! Send it in! Be bold! Send your music into the world! I mean, what do you have to lose?
TORONTO, ONTARIO: The January 2023 Toronto Symphony Orchestra première of Under City Lights, Forgotten Stars. Photo by Allan Cabral.
You can read more about Katerina and hear her works on her website.